My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

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joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

UPDATE: just got the car back from A/C specialist, it's working!!! And this time, really well, gives that "Siberia-alike" feeling ;).... Let's absolutely hope and keep fingers crossed that it will finally STAY like this... they changed the dryer as instructed, purged and charged system, also added detector product (which they always do, he explained). I checked during operation and it looks all good: one of the tubes is warm while the other is ice cold, even showing condensing water on it. Compressor doesn't make any strange noises, runs warm to touch and no oil visible. It's much colder than with the old compressor, so I guess it was not only leaking but also not working well, or, the guy didn't even attempt to do the job well - probaby only changed the compressor and charged the system, proof of this was that he didn't change the dryer. So, I'm really hoping it's finally fixed now.

Will report back in a week or so, hopefully all will remain fine then!
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Doggy
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by Doggy »

Sounds good. Well done. 8)
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12) (wonderful)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19) (also a gem)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate (godawful heap)
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joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

9 days later the A/C is still working absolutely fine, so I'm pretty much convinced that I can stop worrying now and that the problem is solved :D

I'm now going to post a message which is easier to follow, with problems solved and still to solve, as I can't edit the original post.
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

DONE:

- Timing belt kit – changed by mechanic
- Water pump – changed by mechanic
- Metallic articulated tube to EGR – changed by mechanic
- Auxiliar belt, one tensioner and one spring – changed by mechanic
- Coolant – changed by mechanic
- Oil and oil filter – changed by mechanic
- Air filter – changed by mechanic
- Fuel filter – changed by mechanic
- Injectors cleaned by mechanic
- Steering assistance fluid – topped up by mechanic
- Pollen filter – changed by myself
- Right headlight fixation had broken off – fixed myself with cable ties
- Speedometer had erratic failure (needle dropping to zero) – repaired by myself, was the Bitron
- Right bonnet hook not releasing well – broken spring, installed improvised substitute by myself
- Bonnet gas springs defective, bonnet not staying open – changed by myself
- Electric mirrors not working – repaired by myself (installed manual bypass, as memory function is defective)
- Blower motor would only work on full blast – repaired by myself (one wire was not connected)
- Engine randomly shuts off during driving – repaired by myself, was the ignition switch
- A/C not working – leaky compressor, was changed, as was the dryer filter and system was charged by A/C specialist, works fine now
- Bulbs gone on clock and MFD – changed/repaired by myself
- Front speakers had bad sound – they were defective, changed them, fixed!
- Changed the radio head unit for a CD one – done by myself
- Cleaned with contact spray most of sensor connectors in engine bay and all fuses and some connectors inside of car – done by myself
- Rear seat belt was too short for child restraint system - bought a seatbelt extender (only the buckle), it works perfectly.


TO DO:
- Rear brake discs – to be changed maybe in some 10 k kilometres
- One of the rear doors sometimes doesn’t open with central locking – lubrication helps, but it sometimes comes back. Ideas?
- On cold start, you have to crank while holding throttle down at 25% - this is related to BOSCH pump conversion, they didn’t adjust the cold start advance correctly. Might eventually try to figure this out by myself, Haynes has this covered. Not a priority, though, as it always starts quite well with this trick.
- Outside temperature sensor defective – will order a simple 3,3k NTC and install it with parallel resistor (as I found out on Internet and was able to prove by experimentation) , cheaper and no need to dismantle mirror.
- Locks of the doors even with lubrication sometimes enter “free rotating security feature” mode, but after a few tries, they always work – is there any permanent solution to this? Might this be the key itself? Both keys are quite worn.
- Central locking remote is not working – I tried to repair the remote control in key, it now has working button and the LED goes on, but car doesn’t respond. Tried all and every synchronization instructions from the Internet to no avail. Heard about broken antenna on receiver, have to try on different places. Might also be the remote that’s not sending, might try with oscilloscope. Might even just buy a chinese new system and install it – maybe much easier…
- Rear speakers no sound – also defective, will change them eventually
- RPM counter not working – I did overhaul and repair instrument cluster, but this problem was not fixed. I still have to check the crankshaft/TDC sensor, as apparently in this model it’s only used for RPM measurement? So it would not cause other problems? Or am I seeing this wrong? Might measure with oscilloscope where signal goes to cluster. This takes time which I don’t have right now. I also can't seem to find the damn sensor...
- There’s a small but annoying oil leak somewhere at the rear of the engine – my mechanic thinks it could be somewhere close to the Turbo, difficult access. But I’ve been looking at the very oily connections between upper and lower inlet manifold, might very well come from there, I will change short rubber connection tubes by myself some day and this will make certain if the leak comes from there or not.
- Thermostat might be stuck open? On colder days, engine doesn’t warm up past 72/75ºC, only if you push hard for it, then goes to 85, but later goes down again. Both tubes on the left side of radiator warm up at the same speed after cold start, upper one should warm up later only after thermostat opens? The thermostat on 2.1td is located underneath/behind the waterpump on left side of engine block, car must be jacked up. Find out if other parts have to be taken off. Buy axle stands and learn how to bleed cooling system. Definitely worth doing at home due to labor envolved. Needs time...
- Resolve parasitic noises, one in wind shield on drivers window, the other under passengers seat, and one is the sun roof cover.
- Sun roof doesn’t work – this will stay like this, as connectors are disconnected and I don’t want to risk that it might get stuck open, in case mechanics is defective, as there must be a reason for having them disconnected.
- Triangles of wheel support are in a bad shape (don't know the correct term in English), have them changed by mechanic before going to yearly inspection (the equivalent for MOT).
- Adjust nozzles of wipers to better aim at the windshield, change wipers blades, rubbers are dead.
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

So, just returned from a nice trip with my family, we took a few days off. In total, drove around 1000 kms. The car behaved flawlessly :)
Also a very acceptable average of 6,8 lt / 100 km with A/C on most of the time.

I learned something these days: the "cold-start" issue after all is not related to the cold start advance adjustment of the fuel pump. It's something else, I think I've read about it on the net, it is related to fuel going "back" to fuel tank, leaving pump unprimed. That's how I discovered that I had mis-diagnosed this: on our holidays, I parked the car on a steep hill, pointing the front part upwards. On the next morning, I wanted to start it and it wouldn't start, not even with the throttle trick, it needed a lot of cranking and finally started with a lot of smoke. Clearly fuel starvation, it's pretty obvious that the fuel had somehow ran back to the fuel tank, leaving the fuel pump unprimed. I could have used the manual priming pump, but as it started to reach fuel after some cranking, I didn't. So, this confirms that the cold start issue I experienced, is not due to wrong adjustment of fuel pump, but fuel returning to tank if car is not left parked levelled for a longer time. I tested this in two ways: parked the car in the opposite direction on the same steep hill (nose pointing downwards). Started perfectly the next morning. Then, the other day, my wife used the car and didn't remember the "25% throttle trick", instead just turned the key and it started flawlessly after two revolutions of starter motor, perfect. Reason: it was parked levelled. This is in line with what I've read on the net: some of these XUD engine based cars suffer from this issue, and there are some folks who implement a non-return valve in fuel lines. So, I'd like to hear your opinions on this: is this easy and quick to do for a mechanic or might it be difficult to access? What about the non-return valve - any special indications? Should I just ask the mechanic to take car of all this, including purchase of the valve? I'm asking this, because although it would be nice to have this solved, it isn't really a significant problem, it's quite easy to go around it, parking the car correctly, and I really don't want to spend much money on this, I've got other priorities with this car right now. Also, I'd like to know if installing a non-return valve can bring other problems eventually (because if it would be that obvious, I guess they would have installed it factory-side, no?).

Thanks in advance.

On another note: I managed to adjust the nozzles of windshield wipers perfectly and also cleaned them, with a needle, they actually allow adjustment, it's really nice! :cheesy:
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

Today we had some really BAD weather here, strong thunderstorm with terribly strong rain. The result: in just one hour, the whole town was flooded. In Spain, Isla Cristina, was even worse. Quite a few people lost their cars (or at least the motor). I had to take my son to school (or at least try), and immediately decided it would be best to take my wife's car, not my 406, as I've read the warning topic about floods related to this car. And it was still an adventure, but I made it, safe and sound, to school and back (in some places water was at least 30 cm deep). Then, I had a look at my car (as I knew from the last FIRST rain after summer, that the weather rubber seals of the passenger door were in bad shape) and was shocked to find the passenger foot area totally flooded (the picture isn't very good, but you can see the reflection), it had almost two centimetres of standing water. I removed the water with a small bucket and then dried the carpet with a sponge (tomorrow I'm going to repeat the operation of the sponge), so to avoid the worst regarding mold and corrosion. I then took the opportunity of the weather getting much better to investigate the causes. The first, obvious causes, were the weather rubbers of the door. They were ok - I had previously repaired one of them (it had a few cuts) with silicone, so that couldn't be the problem. But then I noticed that the door wasn't pressing against them when closed, there was a gap, that probably allowed all the water to come in. Probably door hinges or door itself, maybe even the result of some unknown accident in the past, we don't know. I then discovered something which worried me even more: some water dripping out of the middle console, where the ventilation out is located, in the foot area. As I was really worried, I decided to take off the cover for the pollen filter in the engine bay, but found the insides to be dry, at least of the ventilation. I found some water around it, though, and noticed that someone had previously applied black silicone around it (quite badly, btw), which was coming off, partially. I thought this could be relevant and went through all the trouble of removing the thing and applying new silicone, but I don't actually think the water went through there. Only then I noticed that one of the little supports of the pollen filter cover was broken (right side of the pic), and the cover was hanging low, making the rubber not being applied with force against the top. I also noticed that a screw was loose close to the wiper shaft, which holds in place the plastic part which goes against the base of the windshield. All this I managed to correct, tightening the screw and using some cable tie to hold the cover in place. Now, I'm not sure if this will avoid water comin in but at least it removed quite a few parasitic noises I had before!
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Then I went for the doors. I got myself some self-adhesive rubber for house doors/windows and applied the stuff around all relevant places. This means that the door is now pressing against the rubber, so no more rain should be able to come in. Let's wait for the next rain to see if it was a success. I know that these rubbers will probably start to come off after some months, or at least in the next summer with the heat, but all in all they cost me 4 euros, so I think it's not a problem if I have to repeat this every year - correct me if I'm wrong, but changing the door rubbers appears to be a much, much more difficult and expensive task...
Attached some photos of the result. The brown stuff even combines quite nicely visually with the false wood panels :lol:
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On a totally different note: I finished repair of the outside temperature sensor, for less than 2 euros - got a standard 3,3k NTC and soldered parallel two resistors which make 17,4k (as I learned from googling, this is what's fitted in the outside temperature sensor of PSA). I then installed this into a little slot I made in the plastic on the base plate of the mirror and soldered the wires to the original wires. Like this, I didn't have to go through the very risky (and difficult) process of taking the mirror apart only to install the damn sensor. It's quite well placed, maybe a little less well than the original one, as it sometimes ends up in full sun, but not under normal conditions. The values I get are fully convincing, although I obviously had no chance yet to see how it behaves in winter with really cold temperatures. But at least between 16 and 35 degrees, they are spot on.
With this repair I noticed that automatic climate control is now working well, before it would take a long time to react and often not use enough blower power, now it works fine within seconds. It definitely needs the outside temperature value as reference. Pics attached.
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Doggy
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by Doggy »

Have you checked the sunroof drains? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8446

They can be removed, cleared & refitted in 10 minutes without any tools after you have done it a few times.
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12) (wonderful)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19) (also a gem)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate (godawful heap)
2008 BMW E91 330i touring (we shall see......)
GingerMagic
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by GingerMagic »

Agree, the sunroof drains have a crimped end to keep dirt out, but this also blocks easily and stops the water draining out....

The flap that controls the fresh air can also stick closed - I just pushed mine in so it stays open :lol:

Your door seal can be removed, rotated 90° and refitted - this often fixes leaks through the seal

The outside temp sensor is really easy to change, just remove the mirror first :cheesy:

Keep up the good work, the car looks good.
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joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

Thanks for the hints about the sunroof drains, didn't know about that. Next time it rains I will see, if problem persists, I will definitely check this out. I'm pretty convinced the water didn't come from the roof, though, as I couldn't feel anything wet there. The door inside was wet though, as was the passenger foot area side trim (to the door), and that little amount of water from central console close to ventilation exit. But I guess it still could have something to do with the sunroof drains. What I really plan to do is: the next time there's some heavy rain, I have to get inside the vehicle to watch it happening, IF it still happens. I think that's the only way to be sure that it is cured and if not, to find out from WHERE it comes (or came)...
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Doggy
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by Doggy »

It's worth your while checking them anyway, only takes a few minutes and most 406's need them cleared every few years.

Be aware the headlining has a waterproof backing and will not show any sign the upper surface is or has been wet.

I think the water runs down the inside of the A pillar and reaches the footwell behind the dash and/or footwell side trim.
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12) (wonderful)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19) (also a gem)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate (godawful heap)
2008 BMW E91 330i touring (we shall see......)
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

Thanks, I didn't know that, I assumed it would get wet...
So, I will definitely check this and clean them.
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

Weather has been good so far, so I went for other priorities and haven't had the chance to do this yet. Instead, I changed the rubber junction pieces of the upper inlet manifold with the lower inlet manifold, they were leaking oil badly and I also cleaned the upper manifold. This maintenance/repair went so well that I made a little How-To under the other thread I had originally opened for this (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25665). I'm looking forward to this being discovered by a moderator, so to see if it might be a good idea to move it over to the how-tos section. Especially nice is the fact that the engine has now recovered quite a few HP, you can really feel it (haven't done any real measurements, but I can notice it on several occasions when driving the roads I drive almost every day, it accelerates quite a bit faster!), I suppose some of the turbo pressure was being lost over the old leaky rubber junctions. That's the only explanation I can find, as the manifold wasn't really clogged or anything.

This has left me thinking about all the path the air goes in this engine, and I was back to one of the points that's really worrying me, the story of the 406 and floods. I obviously found the warnings on here and all over the internet. Not that it was only the 406. Seems quite a lot of cars are allergic to higher water. But we happen to have floods here from time to time and the other day it would have killed my 406 for sure if I had taken it, instead of my wife's Toyota (which went just fine through the water).
So, I'm now planning to modify the intake and have some ideas already, which I'd like to discuss in a separate thread, this one: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25677
Would be great if you people left your opinion about this in the new topic.
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steve_earwig
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by steve_earwig »

joydivision wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:03 am I'm looking forward to this being discovered by a moderator, so to see if it might be a good idea to move it over to the how-tos section.
'tis done. Took me a while as I couldn't remember how to do it :oops:
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

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joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

steve_earwig wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:49 am
joydivision wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:03 am I'm looking forward to this being discovered by a moderator, so to see if it might be a good idea to move it over to the how-tos section.
'tis done. Took me a while as I couldn't remember how to do it :oops:
Great! Hope this might help someone, somewhere, even though these engines are already to be considered "elderly" :lol:
joydivision
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Re: My 406 Break - bought it for work, but already love the car

Post by joydivision »

Just (tried) the cleaning of the sunroof drain tubes thing as described in the topic in the knowledge base section of this forum. Unfortunately, my car seems to be the "odd" one that is different (or has been modified by someone... been there already too many times... seems like since the start, in this car people always opted to fix things the "non-official" way.... :roll: ): I pulled the A-pillar trim off and there was the tube. I did the passenger one first, I pulled it and after doing some (quite a bit) of force, it eventually came out. It has NO "sphincter" at all... and it appeared quite OK. As I'm currently unable (and unwilling to risk) to open the sunroof - the electric connections have been disconnected on purpose (same "trick" like in the mirrors) and I do NOT want to risk to see what happens if I connect them...), I can't send a string or water from top to bottom through the tube, so I just inserted a flexible string from downwards and it went easily up until the roof. I then inserted the tube into place again and went to drivers side. There, I was unable to pull out the tube. Here it seems to be stuck on some kind of "extension" (you see a joint), not like in the pictures of the guide, it is really, really stuck inside the hole and it only came out a little bit, I didn't pull any more as I can't risk that later I might not be able to push it back into place... the passenger's one was already difficult to push into place, I cut my hands in two places doing this... but as the passenger's tube seemed OK, I trust the drivers one should be OK, too. So, I guess here the rain coming in was not caused by the drain tubes but by the problem of the door seals which I addressed (and until now the seals I glued are holding just fine). There's been no rain at all lately, so still no way to tell if it is fixed.

On another note, there was a small spider living in the passenger A pillar trim. It kind of attacked me trying to defend its home :lol:
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